THE DOHERTY DEBATE: Hero or villain?
- Posted on March 6, 2008 2:17 PM
- 15 comments
Pete Doherty is the marmite of music; you either love him or you hate him. Check out our debate and make up your own mind.
Chris Todd makes it pretty clear which side he is on from the onset. Hate seems to be too weak a word to describe his feelings on the recently crowned Hero of the Year.
Check out Part Two of our Doherty debate to see what Zarina Raja had to say on the issue.
‘Other than bad albums, he also makes art from his own shit… and as for his so-called lyrics - which also come from within the u-bend and pooed out over half-arsed musical ramblings - which have the nerve to masquerade under the name ‘music’…muse-shit more like. ‘
The thing about Pete Doherty is well, he's rubbish, he serves no purpose, has no obvious talent and has people frothing at the mouth as if he's some sort of genius bard of our times - he's not.
For some inexplicable reason he has just been voted ‘Hero of the year’ by the NME. The NME has had a similar decline in quality as the alternative UK music scene has, almost as if they are in cahoots together to drag everything down and make it as bland as possible.
Once upon a time the NME was essential reading; brilliantly written by a crack team of the finest music journalists out there; David Quantick, Stuart Maconie, Andrew Collins, Steve Lamacq, Stephen Wells, Dele Fadele…now it’s an Indie version of Heat magazine, full of posters, gossip from the Indie scene, free CDs - only people perceived as being cool on the cover rather than being there for any musical merit.
The NME proved its hypocritical nature by again accusing Morrissey of racism after asking him politically incendiary questions they knew he would answer (but oddly they have failed to ask Klaxons what they think about the ongoing political upheaval in Zimbabwe), he answered them harking back to a time where granted, he answered through rose tinted spectacles, talked of a time of English tea and strolling down sunny English streets in the 60s…This is the exact same thing Pete Doherty does with his images of Albion but is seen as being hopelessly romantic rather than racist. They have also failed to see that Morrissey’s use of imagery in the 1992 song ‘Nation Front Disco’ from his ‘Your Arsenal’ album is exactly what Shane Meadows did to massive acclaim with his ‘This is England’ a whole fifteen years later….they missed that too, silly billies.
So the fact NME is still on the shelves is indicative of the dumbing down of the great British public and it doesn’t get any dumber than thinking that this dirty Doherty oik is some kind of hero.
Pete’s patter is that he is a lost soul with an open heart, a broken guitar his only friend. This doesn’t wash; it washes even less than he does. When he does, his doe eyed sensitive-person-of-the-people act, the look of sincerity which anyone can do if they make their eyes a bit big (see also Princess Diana, Queen or Hearts), doesn’t ring true. His puffy smacked up face and translucent skin just makes him look like some modern day Rodney Bewes (Google him, kids…see?) or a pile of sick that someone has circled the basic shape of a face round.
His guitar playing is diabolical to say the least, anybody who got a guitar for Christmas last year can already play better than him and because they have not yet started injecting heroin/crack/whatever into their finger nails to make it look like they’re not injecting (also see Amy’s finger nails), they don’t have black and blue finger nails either.
He is not the voice of a generation and furthermore he looks like Stig of the dump. I’m old school; I don’t want a band to look more dishevelled or uglier than the audience, why can’t bands look as great as Blur anymore? Or as fuckable as the Strokes for the ladies?
I’ve seen the Libertines and Babyshambles several times and they’re both awful but his fans at his gigs are like brain washed zombies who truly believe in this press enhanced messiah status which has been bestowed upon him…brain washed into thinking its good more like.
Doherty’s influence is not in question here, his influence is obvious in many of the bands around at the moment and for that he has to take some sort of responsibility for the sheer lack of quality UK bands.
For many of the new set of ‘Indie’ fans, they think Indie is this new form of music which came out in 2002 and not in fact by bands such as Subway Sect or labels like Stiff and Factory in the late 70s.
As history has it, Doherty formed another band while in The Libertines so Carl Barat, the joint front man threw him out of the band and soon after that, The Libertines split up soon after releasing a decent second album.
Since then Doherty has served no purpose whatsoever, his subsequent band have dished up two albums, the first a smack addled car crash, the second with songs so bad even legendary production genius Stephen Street couldn’t make it sound good, even his legendary fingers couldn’t polish this turd.
When a band makes it, sooner or later lots of other bands pop up copying said band, because of Doherty we have; The Rumblestrips, Macabees, Larrikin Love, Mystery Jets, The View, The Fratellis, the comeback of Chas and Dave, you can even hear his influence in god awful ‘alternative pop’ trio Scouting for Girls, all of them have heard The Libertines and thought ‘I can do that’….you can’t and whatever ‘THAT’ was, was rubbish.
Twenty years ago UK bands such as Ride, Swervedriver and My Bloody Valentine were showing people what great noises were possible with a guitar and 20 years later it’s acceptable to sound like a half-boiled. skiffle group, busking on the tube with a singer who sounds like a piss smelling, Tenants super-addled tramp who’s just been woken up with a start on the tube.…it’s not on!
Only one decent band has come out from the existence of the Libertines and that’s the Arctic Monkeys but now they are about to lose it also. Cutting edge when still based in Sheffield, now, a move to London and an average second album later they are now scenesters who only win awards because award panellists have no imagination and they think it’s the right thing to do, showering them with awards because they saw them win some at the Brits or whatever.
They now have celebrity girlfriends (like Doherty did) and hang out with a type of celebrity which is totally despicable, only famous because they came out their mummy after their mummy and famous daddy did a drunken shag in 1986, the celebrity spawn. None of these people actually do anything, they are so bereft of talent that they can’t even do modelling.
Hero of the year? The only thing I can remember Doherty doing last year apart from court appearances and shit albums was becoming Amy Winehouse’ rock (heh, yeah? I said rock, geddit?) when her beloved Blake went on remand.
Other than bad albums, he also makes art made from his own shit and it’s not the only talent he has which he finds inspiration for as his so-called lyrics also come from within the u-bend and pooed out over half-arsed musical ramblings which have the nerve to masquerade under the name ‘music’…muse-shit more like.
He’s a genius lyricist apparently, well, I’ve looked at these ones for months now but the brilliance has not popped up and made itself obvious yet, from ‘Sticks and stones you get this; “Schizoid, fame on the run, don’t look back into the motherf****** sun, sticks and stones may break my bones, Oh but your words they really hurt me”.
To me, that’s some words that barely rhyme, an old song title with a f*** in it and part of a nursery rhyme changed slightly to whinge about what Carl Barat has said about him in the press, stop snivelling and SHUT UP!
Can Pete be redeemed? Read Part Two of our Doherty debate to find out.
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Comments (15)
Ash
Agreed. Any comeback arguments are piff and tosh (without reasoned argument). Fans of the man are no friends of mine.
Posted on March 7, 2008 3:40 PM
jim
To whoever wrote the main article - you obviously took some time doing it - I hate, for example, rap music - but i dont ramble on about it, i hate it so why give it the time? There is evidently a little bit of repression on your part.
Posted on March 7, 2008 8:26 PM
Chris Todd
"I hate, for example, rap music - but i dont ramble on about it, i hate it so why give it the time"
BECAUSE IT'S FUNNY!!
Don't get me started on hip hop either...
Posted on March 10, 2008 11:19 AM
Zarina
hahahaha!
Posted on March 10, 2008 12:16 PM
shellie
I don't really see how u justify any of that shit tbh. For starters what do the Arctic Monkeys have to do with the Libertines? U picked a couple of mediocre lines from his songs to argue that he is a bad lyricist - how about "we all live in the yellow submarine", "love me do you know I love you", "she loves you yeah yeah yeah blah blah blah" considered one of the best bands of all time, n one of whom was also a known smackhead (not that it particularly matters cause if u go down that road the list is endless). Yea he's shit on the guitar, even he would admit that. Who cares? He's not claiming to be Jimi Hendrix (also a smackhead FYI). Bob Dylan isn't particularly good at playing guitar or singing, but he's still awesome. Ian Brown has yet to hit a note n he is brilliant. It's easy to criticise anyone. Look at Elvis. Did he ever even write a song? Out of interest, what do u like? Actually, upon reading ur article through again you don't seem to make any other points. Just a load of wiffle waffle. Congratulations ur officially useless. I like the guy n even I cud have criticised him better than u did. Like the brainwashing comment very swaying. What convinced u so much to hate Mr Doherty? The Sun perhaps? Maybe the mirror? Or did u actually read about him, listen to his music and read his poetry to form an objective, open-minded opinion?
Posted on March 14, 2008 3:38 AM
james
The comment you mate about The Sun and The Mirror is hilarious Shellie. They are very reason this sorry man is still able to enforce his putrid lack of talent on people. He relies on their superficial distaste. It's totally naive of you to think they actually dislike him, he sells their paper....duh
Posted on March 14, 2008 1:37 PM
Jodi
just read your comment James and had to reply...
"putrid lack of talent" you say?. If that is your opinion, then I'm just wondering what your definition of talent is??
Peter Doherty is a legend, a poet (and also v.v.cute)
His words are genius and his melodies, moving.
Posted on March 18, 2008 1:23 AM
olly
i love pete
petey petey pete
all in my tummy
down it goes
yum yum yum
crikey guys lighten up. people love him, people hate him. i love him but this debate has happened so many times before. if you hate him, leave him alone, if you lve him, well than carry on doing that. up the shambles!!!
Posted on March 18, 2008 3:04 AM
james
Yes sorry, don't know what came over me guys, I was under the misapprehension there maybe some actual intelligent life form on this site, but alas, just some silly children with little or no knowledge of music pre 2002. Perhaps we can discuss your other favourite waste of time, Razorlight? I hear the singers v.v cute as well, and as for that Carl Barrett.....to die for!!
Posted on March 18, 2008 2:25 PM
olly
what music do you like james?? i am intrigued
Posted on March 19, 2008 12:23 AM
Sass
Settle down kids. Love him, hate him - who cares? Music is about getting a reaction from people. Sure, when Pete's dead people may look back at him as a genius. It's true that troubled souls sell more stories, more papers, and often more records. Do yourselves a favour and browse through your Dad's music collection - give your Grandad's collection a shot if he's still with us. Chances are you'll find the work of some real groundbreaking artists.
Pete's got problems... but I bet you've all got skeletons in your closets too. I'm about to go clean mine out now.
Posted on March 27, 2008 11:24 AM
luke
i totally agree with everything that was said. Pete Doherty makes a living and remains famous because of the "scene" he creates around him...this "scene" that everyone wans to be in on. why? because he dated kate moss? because he takes cocaine and plays a guitar on stage to lots of poeple and looks apparently cool? half of the poeple who loove pete doherty hav't even heard a single song hes played or can name one. when did the british poeple become so vain and pathetic that we idolise people like this? for fucks sake the are more important things in the world then the guy with heroin in his blood that you wanna fuck because hes apparently "rock and roll".
its not even about his music. what the hell has happened to the Brits that we idolise wasters like this? if he wasnt on stage, hed be on prison or on the streets and we'd thing he was a dirty tramp then and youd try not to look at him. stop following what you think "no one else is following" because all the newspapers hate him, so youve gottt to like him. please, are you that stupid? thats exactly why hes liked because stupid little sad girls like a lot on here think its cool to be different when you are all just following the same sad ugly little man who cant play guitar.
why dont you make a stand and idolise someone worth idolising? you're gonna remember your 80 odd years on this earth worshipping this idiot who doesnt even give a fuck about who you are?
grow up guys, and stop trying to be "different" because you all look the same
Posted on March 27, 2008 1:57 PM
N
hero. x
hes absoloutly great (:
x
Posted on June 24, 2008 2:32 PM
Liam
the beatles, the rolling stones, the who, pink floyd. david bowie, iggy pop. all legendary bands who i love, took drugs, but they dont get grief, their drug taking is what gave rock n roll the look and atmosphere.
pete writes songs and poetry which half of the "haters" probably havent taken the time to read or listen to. they probably just by the sun and see this smack head who avoids prison and just spends his time writing in blood. he's different, he's a libertine, he doesnt conform. maybe he is a better role model than half of these pop stars who just dream of making money.
Posted on August 12, 2008 6:40 PM
Kayleigh
The thing that really annoys me about this Doherty argument of 'genius or waster' is that his music never seems to come into it. Lyrically he is out of this world - a true talent. If you sit and listen to the songs and poems he has written you can get so much out of them. People see his public image and write him off and I don't think its fair. Yes he does drugs, but show me a celebrity in his position who doesnt.
People need to focus on Pete Doherty as a musician rather than Pete Doherty as a celebrity and then you will see why he was coined 'Hero of the Year'by the NMW, its for the music. All you haters go buy yourself a copy of 'up the bracket' and listen to it the whole way through and I promise you your opinions will change.
Posted on August 13, 2008 11:41 AM
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